"How we feel about money, and how we use it, is all based around how we feel about ourselves."
Also: Are you a flea?
Hi and welcome to The Ladybird Purse, my weekly newsletter about women and money. I’m not a financial advisor and am in no way qualified to give financial advice.
I saved this from one of money mindset coach Ray Dodd’s emails ages ago and kept forgetting to post it.
Did you hear about the experiment scientists did where they put fleas in a jar with a lid? Now, fleas can naturally jump ridiculously high, higher than any living thing (relative to their size that is!) but after hitting the lid enough times, they learned to jump only to that restricted height.
The mind-bending part? Even when the scientists removed the lid, despite their natural ability to jump to great heights, the fleas kept jumping to exactly the same limited height that had become their normal.
This totally resonated with me with regard to how I approach money and maybe it will with you too.
It also reminded me of this, from my interview with author Rachael Lucas:
I’ve worked hard on my money issues - it used to freak me out having any in the bank, and I realised that somehow I’d created a mindset that my base level was zero, so whatever I had I would spend it until I got back to what felt like normal.
I also interviewed Ray back in 2023.
This week’s interview…
Despite - or maybe because of - the above, I’m always looking to talk to women who have plenty of money, who may even consider themselves to be rich. And so when I got to know Anna Holbrook a little via Substack, I asked WHAT’S THAT LIKE??
See also my interview with Leonie Dawson about what it’s like to be a millionaire:
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An interview with Anna Holbrook
Anna Holbrook is an ICF-accredited Personal Development Coach and certified Behavioural Money Coach.
Initially focusing on the psychological impact of both generational and newfound wealth – Anna has now expanded her practice to help people from all backgrounds move from feeling stuck and unmotivated to clarifying their goals, building confidence, and understanding their money behaviours more deeply.
www.annaholbrookcoaching.co.uk
What is your relationship with money currently?
It’s good, but it’s been quite a journey to get here – a place where I feel comfortable in how I relate to money; how I allow it to make me feel; and how I choose to use it.
To give you a little overview, my money history involved inherited wealth – which sparked a great deal of soul-searching and identity-based questioning. I think this was further complicated by the fact that I didn’t come from a background of wealth, and the level of inheritance wasn’t entirely expected.
Being the primary estate beneficiary ensured I was able to take a step back from my corporate job rather than return after having my first child (which was a huge relief) – but despite the freedom it afforded me, the internal conflict was difficult to manage.
I was undeniably grateful for the opportunity to lead a more comfortable life, yet I sometimes questioned why I deserved to benefit from the hardships and sacrifices endured by my family members – most of whom belonged to the war generation.
There was also a feeling of being judged. Having always valued hard work (in the traditional sense) – probably to justify my mother’s commitment to long working hours during my childhood, I felt unprepared to manage the responsibility associated with wealth, or the choices it gave me.
Although I did continue working (albeit more on my own terms) and achieved a fair amount of professional and financial success, it took quite a lot of mental heavy lifting to shake the unease (some might say shame) of having had an early advantage.
In essence, with the change in my financial circumstances, paired with my ingrained beliefs about money and work, the perfect conditions were created for feelings of low self-worth and a loss of personal identity.
Finding someone to talk to about these feelings turned out to be much harder than I expected. Money-related anxiety, in all its forms, can elicit feelings of shame, fear, and isolation, yet I couldn’t find the people who genuinely understood it – particularly for those in the wealth arena.
Eventually, a mix of traditional Coaching and Money Coaching helped me get to where I needed, but the process felt scrappy – lots of searching in obscure corners of the internet to find the right support.
Interestingly, the U.S. is more forward-thinking in this area, recognising the psychological issues that stem from a change in financial circumstances, particularly for those who experience wealth unexpectedly or are unprepared for the practicalities that go alongside it. In the UK, with all its class divisions, we simply find the subject too uncomfortable to discuss openly or with sincerity.
Fast track to today, and I’m a passionate advocate for open conversations about money and its emotional impact – so much so that I extensively retrained to provide the type of support that I know is desperately needed.
After all, like it or not, we’re on the verge of the largest wealth transfer in history, along with a rapid rise in entrepreneurial wealth creators who may not be prepared for the potential psychological fallout. The right support not only benefits the individual experiencing this shift in wealth but also positively impacts those around them – and, more often than not, the causes they care about.
What’s your earliest money memory?
My earliest money memory is of taking regular trips to the corner shop with a family elder, where the excitement of being allowed to pick one item from the rotating column of colourful, mostly plastic toys was immense. Sparkly makeup palettes and polka dot hairbands hold a special place in my heart. I was probably around five when these trips began.
What advice would you give your younger self about money?
The thing with money is that it’s just a tool. How we feel about it, and how we subsequently use it, is all based around how we feel about ourselves.
We need to feel worthy, before we can feel worthy of money – so I would tell my younger self to find ways to understand who she is and what she truly values. Once that’s established, learn everything you can about money - investments, budgeting, mortgages, credit card terms, gifting rules, pensions, life insurance, and of course – tax to be able to make the most informed choices.
What’s the biggest money mistake you’ve made?
Luckily I haven’t made any life-changing financial clangers, but in the early days of our property business, my husband and I bought a house at auction in an up-and-coming part of East London, intending to renovate it. However, for cash-flow reasons, we sold it fairly quickly to focus on another renovation project (which turned out to be far less lucrative). I really do wish we’d held onto it.
What’s the best thing you’ve ever spent money on?
Without a doubt, my first property. It set me up for understanding the property market, gave me stability, and increased my wealth.
Do you have a pension? If not, do you have a plan?
I have a small one from my corporate days, but property is my real pension, along with some other stocks and share investments.
I made the decision to invest in property over pensions quite a long time ago, and so far, it’s paid off.
My mum will have sleepless nights if she reads this. I think the idea of not contributing to a pension is inconceivable to that generation.
What would you do with £10,000?
The older my children get, the more space they take up, and the louder they become (especially when with friends), so I would put it towards a garden studio for them to have a bit more freedom.
We’ve wanted to do it for four years, but other more pressing life costs have continually gotten in the way.
What little luxury could you get with a tenner?
I would undoubtedly choose a book. Ideally with a coffee – enjoying them both from a comfortable armchair in the window of an independent coffee shop. But the budget would mean a paperback (which at least is easier to hold and slip into my bag, so win-win!).
You mentioned "the budget" when buying a paperback. How do you budget and are you strict at sticking to it?
I take a bit of an old-fashioned approach to budgeting, traditionally using a relatively simple Excel spreadsheet which I update annually.
I document every single expense – literally everything (it’s a bit ruthless, maybe even a little masochistic!) – to get a clear picture of how much our family need to maintain our preferred lifestyle each year. This helps me assess what we need to earn, adjust, or cut back on to ensure everything remains sustainable.
Do you think of yourself as rich?
The word ‘rich’ elicits so many complicated feelings and emotions, that it’s difficult for me to answer it in simple terms.
However, as we’re talking honestly here, the answer has to be yes – I do think of myself as wealthy, and that’s predominantly because we can currently afford to live in an affluent area of London, send our two children to private school, and go on a couple of nice holidays a year. It would be tone-deaf of me to think otherwise.
Do I feel rich – no. Whilst our life choices to date have felt right for our family, they’re expensive life choices, and I will welcome the time when the pressure is off, and the level of financial commitment eases.
Is your social circle made up mostly of other rich people or are you a lot wealthier than your friends? And if the latter, what effect has your wealth had on your friendships?
This is a tough one, and similar themes are regularly raised by my clients, as wealth – whether newly acquired or long-standing, can be divisive and isolating, especially when you're acutely aware of the struggles faced by those at the other end of the financial spectrum.
If we define ‘rich’ as having the ability to comfortably cover expenses while having disposable income for non-essential luxuries, I would say by virtue of where I live, where my kids go to school, and my business interests, many in my social circle would fall into that category. Whether they would define themselves as ‘rich,’ I can’t say.
In my broader social circle, the mix is much more varied, and many of my older friends are far from wealthy.
While I may never fully know how friends (and family) who face monetary challenges feel about my financial privilege, I can only hope that the support we offer each other outweighs any differences in our circumstances.
As a wise mentor once said to me, “If you want my life, you need to have all of my life” – And for some, perhaps that’s just too much of a sacrifice…
If you were me, what would you want to ask women about money?
I would ask what money represents to them. Is it a tool or is it a weapon? If it’s a weapon, are they happy for it hold that power, and if not, what do they need to change that dynamic?
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THE LATEST POST ON MY AUTHOR SUBSTACK, HAPPY ENDINGS…
"If you want my life, you need to have all of my life” - very true...
Super interesting, as always!